I need to get back to writing again, so I’m doing a couple posts about online escorts issues.
getting what you really want at a lower rate
I received advertising spam from a combination info-blog/advertising mall except they don’t seem to actually have any escorts signed up with them (they also seem geared toward agencies, not indies). I’m not sure why I got spammed, but the site was entertaining nonetheless. Their stated purpose is to teach clients “learn how to negotiate with escorts the right way to get what you really want. Don’t risk getting ripped off or going to jail.”
Escorts have an adverse reaction to the word negotiate. It’s a business. You pay what the businessperson is charging or seek to engage another businessperson. If you can’t afford Escort A, then there is probably the very-affordable Escort B advertising in Escort A’s city — all you have to do is reach out and email. Don’t haggle with Escort A because that won’t get you anywhere except possibly a complaint on a ladies’ board; just email Escort B and arrange a booking with the escort you can afford.
As for teaching male clients how to “get what they really want” I would highly suggest finding an escort whose personality turns you on, go in without heavy expectations and let the experienced professional do her job without getting in her way (she’s going to try to make you very happy). See her again and again and pretty soon you have exactly the experience you want — quite possibly surpassing your original expectations. (I touch on this subject a bit more here.)
Or…you could send an escort a detailed letter of every little thing you expect from her and every little thing you want her to do — and never see her. She may post this letter on a national ladies’ board for the laughs (or you could live in infamy online as a time-waster), which could mean you don’t see any escort in her city. Or you send copies of this letter to every escort in a single city, effectively screwing yourself out of seeing any escort in that city.
That’s how “getting what you really want” really works in really real life.
another logic gap
The site’s blog post titles are amusing to me, reading them sounds like a lot of tire-kicking and viewing escorts (aka “human beings”) as little Barbies sitting on a shelf until someone comes along, reads the description on the box and decides whether or not to take the lucky Barbie to the cash register. Talking, companionship, sex is an interaction. It really is. The presence of cash does not change that, though it may smooth the interaction tremendously.
There was zero discussion of boundaries on this site, which is a large consideration when meeting an escort. She has them and so do you. Boundaries are important considerations when you’re trying to “get what you really want” from another human being. Instead, it just seems that “getting what you want” entails paying the escort more. That works with some girls to a point. It doesn’t fly at all with others. That whole interaction thing again, damnit.
safety for clients, and the law
Men do sometimes get ripped off by escorts. If you call a sketchy-sounding girl and ask her to come to your hotel at 1am and she doesn’t ever discuss price until she gets there, well boys, you get what you pay for. On the other hand, girls get ripped off every single day, often by (former) regular clients and very, very regularly by hobbyists. They get ripped off during the day and at night. It happens to many girls in every single city, every single day, across the nation. Due to the laws being what they are, the girls cannot file charges. In countries where sex work is fully decriminalized, there is no such thing as being ripped off because the client doesn’t want arrested and then hauled into court to explain his actions. Nor do rip-off escorts exist — for exactly the same reasons. Funny how not working underground takes care of all that.
But clients somehow think they’re the ones at risk, especially from those devious escorts who are established, have websites, reviews and charge more than $100.
Online reverse sting operations [where undercover female cops arrest male clients] happen about as often as a $500/hr escort is willing to get haggled down to $100/hr. However, all smart escorts screen because there is a very good chance the person trying to book with them is a cop and wants to ruin their life over a private matter between consenting adults. Escorts do not particularly enjoy screening, but escorts don’t enjoy arrest more than they don’t enjoy screening.
it came from Twitter
On the other hand, decrim is not the answer to all life’s problems. One of my Twitter followers commented (to someone else) that “reproving the legal problem will force all sex workers to provide quality service.”
Escorts like to be forced to do things about as much as they like having no rights. Second, “quality service” is a very subjective thing, as every single hobbyist-reviewer will attest to. Escorts are a bit more professional and a lot more upfront about what they’re willing to do in locales with decrim because they’re not afraid of being arrested, and it helps them weed out clients they’re not willing to take. Fair enough. But “quality service?” If the client does a poor job of assessing chemistry or is an unpleasant client, then it doesn’t matter how decriminalized the area is, “quality” probably isn’t going to happen for him. Third, neither decrim nor legalization has “quality service” coded into the laws because forcing sex workers to entertain clients in a certain manner is not what the laws are about. Forcing sex workers to do something they may not want to does not protect them — and both decrim/legalized laws are generally built around the concept of consent and not force.
Decrim does mean he won’t be ripped off, he will not have to worry about his safety (assuming he still uses common sense in choosing companions) and if he chooses an indie — she will look like her pix. He may not have the ultimate experience he expects to have (because escorts are human too), but he will not encounter dangerous or threatening negatives. That’s all decrim does. It does not change escorts or clients to something they’re not; nor does it create a magical fantasyland where all escorts conform to one man’s idea of what escorts should be.
Of all the reasons I’ve ever encountered for advocating for decriminalizing prostitution, forcing escorts to provide “quality service” is a new one to me. It’s refreshing to know I can learn something new every day.
” In countries where sex work is fully decriminalized, there is no such thing as being ripped off because the client doesn’t want arrested and then hauled into court to explain his actions. Nor do rip-off escorts exist — for exactly the same reasons.”
I got ripped off in Amsterdam. It was the only time I’ve ever attempted to pay for sex. I was in a two year dry spell and really needed to break it. I was in Amsterdam anyways, so I decided to go for it. The woman in the Red Light District just took my money and then told me to get out.
Even though I suppose I could have told a cop or something, that seemed like it would just make me feel even more embarrassed.
Now I’m married, so luckily I don’t have that problem any more! (My wife thinks it’s a funny story.)
Anon — Since she had a window in the RD District, you should have filed a complaint — there is nothing embarrassing about it. She was a bad business operator. (Taking your story at face value, of course. Not that maybe you weren’t stone cold sober and were an absolute gentleman of a client.)
There are unscrupulous people everywhere in the world, but the odds of running into a rip-off escort are much, much lower when escorts are not considered criminals and pushed underground.
Though as a sex tourist, you’re opening yourself up to problems you wouldn’t have if you were local. (Also, if I were going to pay for sex in another country besides America, I’d choose somewhere other than Amsterdam or Thailand.)
You’re married now and don’t have to worry about sex??? Ha! We’ll have this discussion again in 10 years.
XX
Amazing post! I love it when someone is able to portray the escorts side of the story. Learning all the unwritten rules will make everyone much happier in the end. I would love tho rest this on my site. Can I have your permission to do so?
James — I’m glad you enjoyed reading this. Yes, there are some unwritten rules, but I think escort bloggers are taking care of that!
Please don’t repost, but you’re more than welcome to make a link back.
XX
THANK YOU! If I am being harassed by a client about my price then we will not have a good time. It is very offending and I work hard at what I do and love it but do not when these guys are reading such advice and ruining our moment.
XxX Beauties — Thank you too! It helps for guys reading blog posts like mine to know I’m not the only one with these issues.
XX
Being harassed over the amount is wrong. But is there a time where “reasonable negotiating” is acceptable?
Me — The IMPORTANT concept to remember in any negotiation is give and take. If a man wants the girl to spend the full hour with him and give him the TIME OF HIS LIFE yet he only wants to pay $100 for it (and she charges $300), then that is not a negotiation, is it? Because he’s getting everything he wants and she’s not getting what she wants at all (which is her rate).
I’m not sure what the proper compromise is in a situation like that: she keeps her clothes on the whole time? He leaves in 15 minutes? Oral only (which is kind of hard to negotiate in the US)? He pays $150 instead? He does an hour of house cleaning before the session? He fixes her car first?
For a true negotiation to happen, both parties have to meet in the middle. Every man who has attempted to “negotiate” with an escort always expects HER to do all the work and offers nothing of value to her in return. Which is why escorts have a knee-jerk reaction to the word. It never bodes well for them.
Much easier for a man with only $100 to spend to simply find an escort who charges $100, rather than attempt to “negotiate” with one who charges more.
I have yet to walk into Neiman Marcus and attempt to negotiate my way into buying something I really wanted but didn’t quite have the funds for. It would never work and would be embarrassing for me. Instead, I go to another shop and if I find nothing that interests me, I just wait until I can afford what I truly want. (I’m always happiest getting what I want instead of a not-quite-it substitute.) But that’s me.
XX
i can see it being uncomfortable negotiating one price for a type of…, oh, ah, hmm, and, well, you can fill in the rest :P~
I guess i was asking about more than a raw act. for example, if there was a play someone wanted to have company for, a dinner, or a trip to someplace (like Monaco), or some event, or even to go do something you’ve always wanted but but haven’t (paragliding or whatever), is it always a set rate per hour?
Me — As I’m sure you’ve read on here, you pay for her time and energy. Why would her time/energy be worth LESS in one situation or another? Most escorts have already figured out what their time is worth and have bulk discount rates on their sites (for the exact situations you describe). Frankly, we often find it’s far more draining to entertain for hours on end than it is to just have simple sex and go. Don’t assume that just because it’s “not about sex” that it’s somehow less of a demand on her energy.
And…unless you’re psychic or she has already told you very specifically what she REALLY wants, you’re just guessing that she wishes to spend a week with you in close quarters in another country at a reduced rate.
Usually your safest bet is to offer something of great practical value to her: a house, a new car, CPA services, quality plastic surgery, etc. Girls very often appreciate help in those areas and will be willing to barter for these things.
After all, the point of all this negotiation is a substitute for plain old cash — which is the most practical gift of all. So you must offer something equally practical in return.
XX
PS: I have been thinking about doing a post of the items I’ve been offered for bartering. NONE of them were practical. Except one. Which is how I got the car I currently have.
I’ve got to somewhat disagree with your ideas about negotiation. Following from the idea that a fair trade is a freely agreed upon trade (i.e. free of coercion), the agreement has to come from both sides. The market value for the services rendered are not solely determined by the service provider. It’s the same as haggling down a mechanic, house keeper, grounds keeper, etc. This is something all service providers will deal with from time to time and is a part of the business. This is especially true of smaller businesses where those who interact with clients are empowered to make such choices. That the service in question is escorting or sexual in nature does not nor should it change this aspect in any way, shape, or form. Incidentally, none of this implies that an escort should feel she has to take whatever is being offered at the moment. The only implication is that if you call yourself a businessperson, you’re going to have to deal with all of business, even the parts you dislike. Quash the attempts or humor them as you will, but such is the game.
All of that said, there’s a definite right time and a wrong time for such negotiations. The right time is during the setup for the actual meet. This implies a little bit of difficulty because legal situations often preclude full disclosure of services rendered; however, from difficulty does not follow impossibility. At this point, price should be agreed upon in clear, absolute uncertain terms (to include cancellation fees as a nod to the opportunity being lost by scheduling a meet with person A instead of person B).
After the start of the meet, you’re talking about something entirely different.
Silo — That’s what I’ve been saying. However, very few clients who attempt to “negotiate” offer anything of real value to the escort, hence escorts’ knee-jerk reaction to the word because it’s used as a euphemism for “lower your rates.” Most escorts price themselves lower than they should to begin with just because they wish to make money.
And…there is a way to approach negotiation that the vast majority of men completely miss.
I’ve been a patron of many small business owners and never ONCE have I attempted to haggle them down. I find it insulting to both of us. If I want to spend less, I either find someone else or I see them less. I don’t disrespect what they do by attempting to be cheap. It’s not their problem if I can’t pay.
Negotiation with escorts works opposite of what you just suggested. It works best with a regular, established client. Most escorts are quite open to negotiation if you’re reliable and they like you. They’re NOT open if you’re just some cheap, anonymous dude emailing them for lower rates.
XX
You hit the nail on the head with this one! Not to mention the fact that it just does something to me that completely turns me off, and that does not make for a good experience for either of us! Sometimes I want to scream and just really break it down to them, the way you just did! I also, have never ever haggled with my mechanic or the guy that does my taxes. The price is the price. Plain and simple.
Rachel — Exactly. If you have a client who can’t understand things, send him here. Maybe he’ll get the point if someone else echoes what you say.
XX
HI Amanda,
I just purchase your book, i can say by mistake.
after some tough I start to read it.
and I love it !!!
planning to buy book#2 soon.
Congratulation!
Lino — Thank you! I’m glad the mistake wasn’t too bad. 🙂
Me – Does a “reasonable negotiation” mean that the price can go down or up? Can she raise the price if your bickering and penny-pinching seem to bode poorly for a nice time and she needs more compensation in order to put up w/ you?
Silo – Are you serious? Just because it goes on doesn’t make it acceptable. In any service business, clients who try to haggle down prices or parts of a deal are the most tiresome, annoying, petty and irritating people to deal with. Whether you are an escort, mechanic, scuba diver or roofer, these client requests scream “I have no pride and no class”. It makes it very clear what kind of person you are dealing with. Rarely is the money worth it.
There are really two simple rules to having a good time with an escort: pay the fee requested and be a gentleman. A lot of little things can be recommended to help (don’t smell), but this sums up most of it. Shockingly, this will also usually lead people providing other services to do good work too. And, in a way that the hagglers and penny-pinchers might never comprehend, following these two rules, being good company, and giving a nice tip when appropriate will sometimes get you free extras on top of what you ordered/agreed to/paid for; things no one would ever dream of giving the “negotiator”.
Amanda – In my experience bartering offers have more often been another tactic attempted by the client not to pay fair cash than they are genuine or practical. YOU don’t try to haggle other businesses down because you are a decent, fair person. The guy who does this to an escort probably does it to everyone he deals with. Or, agrees to the price but tries not to pay in full for work done.
Happy New Year!
Lee — Exactly! There are clients who activate what I call the Asshole Tax system (I’ve watched Fight Club too many times). They never get it.
Yeah, the “offers” for “barters” are never fair-trade deals and never for anything I actually want — with the exceptions I’ve noted.
Guys who announce loud and clear that they don’t respect our business means they won’t respect us and who really wants to have sex with someone who is disrespectful from the very start?
Happy New Year to you!
Lee, you hit that nail right square on the head!
I hate hagglers, whether in the industry or not. An ex of mine was a haggler and this was the primary reason for the end of our relationship.
In my straight job, I’ve only seen one client haggle the art dealer I work for down 15%. It was obnoxious and I could tell by the look on her face that she wanted to kick his ass up and down the Avenue.
Aspasia — Lee made a great comment, didn’t he? I feel haggling is demeaning regardless of the situation, as illustrated by your art dealer.
Deleted your second comment. Sorry that my blog was buggy — I have had trouble submitting comments myself.
It is no wonder there are not any escorts following them because no escort wants to deal with clients or anyone for that matter that is promoting to make their job harder. We get enough time wasters and cheapos to have to put up with even more. I do not negotiate nor will I. I feel my prices are good for what I offer. The client just wastes his own time or could have had fun if they would relax. If they are wanting to negotiate and harass, they will not get a good session nor will the girl want to see them again. I will not see them if they are already acting that way on the phone. Sorry, my comment is long but I have so much to say about this! lol. I have a lot more but……What do you all do if a client is one of those who slipped through who wants to harass and try to take advantage the whole time? How do you all stop that? That advice would help a lot of girls I think.
Victoria — Exactly.
Not sure what you mean by someone who wants to “slipped through who wants to harass and try to take advantage the whole time” but if you mean a client who is in the room with you…then it depends on the situation. If you are annoyed enough and feel safe, just tell him to leave and stand in the hallway with the door open until he does. (If it’s outcall, you simply leave.)
If it’s not a safe situation, just work on keeping him as calm as possible until you can leave (or get him to leave). There is no other solution for someone who keeps attempting to haggle in person. It’s certainly not a turn-on for women.