I should have Storified this but didn’t because I only have so much time and energy.
A question was posed on Twitter about not seeing guys of a certain race. I gave a flip, but honest answer, about why I no longer see Indian clients (even though Indians aren’t actually a race, they’re an ethnicity). And I don’t. I made that decision a year ago, after months of soul-searching and debate.
All of that debate was with two friends who would hear about my complaints after each and every appointment with Indian guys and they would pose the obvious solution: “Stop seeing Indian clients.” I would argue back with all the arguments I got on Twitter, plus my worry about it affecting my finances.
All the while these guys would rub my skin bleeding with their stubble, breathe their cigarette breathe into my face, get that smell all over my pillows and room. I’d have to hold my breath when dealing with them in any other way because they don’t seem to believe in soap either. My breasts, legs and hips would be bruised because they would squeeze so hard, despite my telling them to lighten up. Let’s not even talk about the generally rough sex or the painful attempts at oral sex. They were uniformly awful and I have enough bad shit in my life already. I didn’t need this. But I am Amanda Brooks, I can’t possibly turn down guys based on their ethnicity.
Finally the day came when an Indian guy wanted to see me. I sat and thought about how much I was already dreading the appointment just by looking at his email (this is known as being “triggered”), how much I would hate him, how much damage he would do to my body and psyche. So I decided to not answer his email. And that was it. It was freeing and wonderful. I knew I never had to deal with this specific type of abuse ever again if I didn’t want to. And I haven’t. Why would I?
There was an obvious pattern of behavior with the Indian men I seem to attract. Continuing to see them and yet expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. Continuing to see them would make me insane.
indians as customers/clients
Indians are known as terrible strip club customers. At least they were when I was stripping in 1998-2002. They treated your breasts like stress balls (exactly like they treated them as escort clients). No one liked dancing for Indians. When I began seeing them as an escort, it didn’t go much better. They were spending more money, but there was more of me to grab. They were easy in that they always screened and as far as I know, no Indian guy is ever on the Vice squad of the local PD. But that’s the only way they were easy.
My real and honest issue with them is they’re steeped in a culture solidly built on misogyny. They treat the “good” women like shit. A prostitute is hardly a “good” woman and they way they treated me was a direct reflection of that. It wasn’t hard to see and the older I got, the easier it was to see. Not like they tried to hide it, why would they bother? I was secondary to non-existent to any of their concerns.
I’ve traveled. I’ve seen Indian clients in the US, Canada, UK, France, Dubai, Malaysia and Singapore. I have gotten a really good sampling of Indian-born Indians, American Indians, and English Indians. Across the board, they were terrible. (Of course there are the exceptions that I can count on one hand with fingers left over. It’s not worth the abuse to try and find those rare exceptions.)
The last Indian client I saw in the US talked about how stressed he was managing the hotel he owned. He lived at home and mommy took care of him, while he would yell and scream at her over any little thing. That’s how this guy treats his doting mother??? No thanks.
people who don’t actually know me have decided i haven’t examined my own life and motivations thoroughly enough
So I admitted that after many years of awful experiences, I decided to preserve my sanity; and I was crucified for it. None of these sanctimonious, self-righteous sex workers live my life, pay my bills, live in my body. My body but not my choice. I have to abide by their choices. I haven’t “examined” my obvious prejudices. How many more years of abusive men do I have to put up with in order to have properly “examined” my conclusions? Really, give me an actual number here. (I told one lady that I’ve been fucking Indians longer than she’s been on Twitter. She blocked me.)
I have PTSD from a lifetime of shit, and especially the last five years. My PTSD has become acute recently. I’m tossing clients right and left because I have nothing left. I can’t even stand most of them touching me right now. I’m burned out but because I have to survive, I have to keep doing this, I can’t earn this level of income any other way. I have to survive for myself and Jill. Our support network is razor thin. (Not to mention, we both lack the privilege of living in the county of our birth, the country of which we’re both citizens.)
But somehow, my decisions for my well-being means I’m on a pedestal, it means I haven’t examined my life, it means I’m highly offensive and a horrible horrible person. Harm reduction as a way of working is a technique I’m not allowed to use, apparently.
That I have to explain my own sex work choices to other sex workers is the saddest part of all of this, not that random Indian dudes won’t get to have sex with me.
Because obviously they should, no questions asked, regardless of how I feel about it.
trigger warning: my list of offensive sexual choices
In fact, everyone should get to have sex with me, regardless of how I feel about it. Consent is irrelevant in the face of being politically correct. For that matter, why screen? Screening discriminates against those who don’t pass screening. Why insist on clients being clean? That discriminates against those without access to running water or a personal aversion to soap. Why have any boundaries? Saying no to a man is a terrible thing to do to him. And rates…why have them? Charging any money at all discriminates against those who have none.
I’m such a horrible person that I won’t have sex with:
children — so I’m the opposite of whatever a pedophile is
dead people/zombies –so I’m very life-ist
animals — so I’m a speciesist
younger guys — so I’m ageist (I’d love to not see older men but they’re money)
women — so I’m genderist or sexist or whatever
men who can’t afford me — so I’m elitist
men who are blacklisted — also elitist
men who are complete fucking morons — definitely elitist
There are men whom I’d like to fuck for free, but they generally don’t want to fuck me. I’m sure some would call that karma.
For the record, I hate Chinese people but have sex with them because although a people with a terrible culture, they’re easy clients.
Black clients? Fine. Black guys in strip clubs? Usually pimps and were merely avoided.
Latino men? Of the very few I’ve gotten to see, I’ve liked them a lot (except for the one guy who decided to short me the third time he saw me).
I’ve only recently discovered I’ve been having sex with Jewish men for years and didn’t know it. No issues there, but I’m guessing others will tell me it’s because they’re “white.”
I would like to have sex with a Native American man, so I’m guilty of fetishizing them because I’d like to add them to my checklist of sexual experiences. Apologies to any Native American reading this. You don’t have to have sex with me if you don’t want to, I doubt your decision will offend anyone. My decision certainly will.
There are many ethnicities and cultures I’m leaving out because I don’t interact with them often enough in my work unless I’m in their country. I’d love to go on and be even more offensive, but I’m running out of ideas here. Hopefully, this post is going to be offensive enough as it is.
Doubtless, my crimes against all humanity will echo through Twitter for the next couple days and make all horny Indian men cry because I know they care that much.
my body, other people’s choices for me, and internalized misogyny
I’m a horrible horrible person and my views on making my own choices for my life might spread. That would be a horrible thing to happen. One’s sexual choices, especially in sex work, should only be decided by a committee of the most self-righteous, PC sex workers out there. Otherwise your personal choices aren’t valid and you aren’t allowed to choose with whom you share your body.
Strangely, though I was honest about turning down Indian clients, not a single one of the sex workers defending them or hating on me asked me for referrals. I mean, if Indian clients are so great…how come nobody wants to take this money off my hands? Everyone seems okay with not seeing extra Indian clients if they don’t have to. Everyone seems okay with dogpiling me for not seeing them, no one stepped forward and said “Hey, if you’re not going to eat that, can I have it?” Obviously, from my horribly bigoted perspective, I assume it’s because they don’t really like Indian clients either. They just like getting to tee off on me.
And to put this in a little more perspective…this is my decision about who I will and won’t have sex with. I don’t go down the street and hate-crime Indians (or Chinese). I don’t speak to them any particular way, even when they’re obviously rude to me. I love Indian food and haunt Indian restaurants regularly. Outside of the bedroom, Indians are just part of the scenery. Except I’m usually really glad I will no longer have to have sex with them.
Ava St. Claire wrote a blog post about examining one’s internalized prejudices. Yeah, because my decision to not see Indian men has fuck all to do with their collective pattern of behavior of over a decade of experience, it’s really because I haven’t looked into my bigotry. That’s totally it. I realize the post wasn’t about me and was mostly focused on the experiences of black providers but…reason #2 strongly alluded to it.
According to her, all I need to do is write on my website that I’ll only see Indian men if they’re freshly shaven, non-smelly, don’t smoke, and promise not to maul me like I’m a gummy bear. Yeah, that will improve my experiences with Indian clients dramatically in a completely non-offensive fashion. Why didn’t I think of this solution before??? Clients always read one’s website fully and abide by everything it says.
I’ve always believed as others believe, that one should not discount an entire group of clients due to race (or whatever defining feature). This is true. It saddens me when a black client has to tell me he’s black in his intro email because he has to give fair warning. This is why I continued seeing Indian clients, clients I loathe, long after it stopped being okay and started being mentally/emotionally unhealthy for me. I was letting what other people think, people who were not in my bedroom or my life or my body, force me to continue seeing them.
I didn’t want to be that person who denies a man access to me because of a factor beyond his control; because, of course, men should always have all the access they want to the pussy they want. I’ve never liked seeing that in other sex workers because it always seemed very unfair to clients. This is exactly what internalized misogyny looks likes and I’m pleased to root it out of myself.
The PC bottom line, which was made clear to me on Twitter, is that offending a man is far worse than a woman saying no. That a woman’s worth is less than a man getting access to the sex he wants. Mind you, this was all coming from fellow female sex workers. One Indian man made a mild comment and that was it (he said he is a good client and likely he is).
This unexpected misogyny still astounds me, but it shouldn’t. So many, many sex workers play on Team John because they have seriously unexamined internalized misogyny, and I can see it as clearly as I see it in men, Indian or not. Me? It’s always hoes before bros. (I should write a long preachy post about unexamined internalized misogyny in female sex workers with lots of pix of hot women but fuck it, I don’t have the energy.)
Even when I’ve known a sex worker was actively racist in her decision not to see certain men, I could never argue that her body means its her choice. Because it is. Period. You can find that choice as offensive as you want to. You can get on your high horse and go win the Triple Crown. Doesn’t change who she says gets to have sex with her. It’s her body, her choice. Anything else that negates her consent is absolute rapist bullshit.
should men be subjected to having sex with women who hate them?
Then there’s the opposite approach that I’ve seen: an actively racist sex worker will see anyone because money matters more than skin color. That’s great and all, but is the session full of microaggressions? Is that healthy for the client to deal with this? I don’t know. But again, if she chooses to see him for the money and has no personal issues with it…her body, her choice.
This was one actually one of the deciding factors in not seeing Indian men anymore. I loathed them and it wasn’t fair to them to pay a healthy amount of money to be with someone who didn’t want to be with them. To me, the correct decision was respecting their right to be with someone who wanted to be with them and actually liked them. Tell me I’m wrong about that. (Actually, I’m sure someone will. It should be amusing to see that trail of logic.)
victim-blaming and more internalized misogyny
And then there’s victim-blaming. On another thread from the same account, a victim was blamed for having the audacity to suffer six sexual assaults in her work. (Jill’s record is quite higher.)
One of the reasons I’ve stated, repeatedly, is that the Indians I’ve seen have been truly awful. So I decide to stop being victimized by them. And I get beaten over the head for being a bigot.
What’s a woman supposed to do? Quietly suffer repeated abuse because getting in the way of a man’s access to pussy is the worst thing she could do; or stand up for herself and be a supposed bigot and stop allowing those abusive types to see her? Damned if she doesn’t, damned if she does.
Or how about sex workers who do things that could be seen as harmful or endangering to themselves, like abusing substances or not screening? They’re allowed the right to live their lives as they see fit. I make a harm reduction-based decision and I’m a horrible person for it.
All of you who read this and think “Now I know why Amanda made that decision!” yay for you. But think about why I even have to waste the time to explain one of the self-protective decisions I’ve made about my own body and my own sex work. Internalized misogyny mixed with a huge dose of PC policing, that’s why.
Or those who think “I don’t blame you for your decision”. Why was there blame assigned in the first place? Am I not allowed bodily and work autonomy? If this is how you think, then you have far deeper issues than mine regarding Indian clients.
Escorts who still follow what I say, let me tell you this: turn down any client you want for any reason you want. And if you turn down all clients from a certain group because it makes you a happier person in your life or safer in your work, then do it. The men will not suffer, I promise you. Your suffering is not worth the money and certainly not worth their orgasm. Your body, your choice, and I no longer care one single bit how much you’ve “examined” your choices or not. Your business, your body, your choice.
I’m not perfect, I’m not Jesus, I don’t love every single human on the face of the planet. But I am the only person who lives in my body and has to look at myself in the mirror every day. I do what I can while trying to cause minimal harm to others or harm to myself. It’s the best I can do.
I’m also pretty sure that the Indians guy who write me can find someone else to see them. The horny Indian men of the world are not harmed by my lack of participation in assisting their orgasms.
Get a grip, people.
two final notes
I was blocked by Miss Erin Black because I failed to agree with her, or something (the horror, the horror!). Little does she know that the whole “Miss [escort name]” thing was started many, many years ago by yours truly. Because escorts are mostly unoriginal thinkers, it spread. She should probably change her Twitter handle and all her branding because she might not want the association.
The photos are of Guy Pearce as the character Marion Snow in the movie Lockout. Yes he’s white and white=hot and I would really like to fuck that character. He’s notably not Indian, which completely explains my wild attraction. I’m attracted to all white men equally because they’re not Indian (or Chinese). I never have to fake it with a white guy because they turn me on so much just because they’re white. I feel no reason to examine my wild attraction to each and every individual white men. I love have sex with white men forever. All white men, especially Trump voters and MRAs. They’re a sexy, sexy, super-pale monolith.
The photos are really here because I like his facial expressions while wearing that particular t-shirt.
52 thoughts on “how my personal choices affect everyone else who isn’t me”
You have been my mentor and guide from the very first moment I decided to become an escort. Your books and blog and website have offered me support and advice and helped me sidestep pitfalls that I may have encountered had I not found your books first.
And I too have struggled with this exact same thing. I berate myself because I don’t want to be “that person” but the fact of the matter is I have never had an enjoyable or even tolerable appointment with an Indian man. I feel used and abused every time. So I stop seeing them for a time. Then feel guilty and give it another try. And the same thing happens over and over. I have no issue with Indian people in my day to day life however I just do not want to have sex with them. So I guess that makes me a bad person too. But despite being an escort I have the right to make that choice. Just as I choose not to do Greek or have someone tie me up. It’s my business, my body and my right.
You nailed it in your post and I’m glad you spoke up, and I for one, support you.
Jane — Thank you for your support and for being the first to have the balls to make a comment on here.
I’ve talked to many escorts, long before this post, who have had consistently horrible experiences with Indian clients. This includes Indian sex workers in southeast Asia. Some refuse Indian clients, some still see them because they need the money.
At the end of the day, it is your body, your choice and according to the sex work Twitter police, you’re a horrible person for insisting on bodily autonomy.
Sex worker rights don’t extend to the rights of the individual sex worker and their own body, apparently.
I just realized…I’m a horrible person for denying men access to my body. But when Pig raped me, it was my fault for allowing him access to my body. I would really like to know just when to allow men access to my body or not. Because after 41 years, it seems I’m still doing it wrong.
My daughter and I got into a snit last night over Indian men. I am a landlord going in to high season. It has always been a sellers market here and the odds are not good. But without fail, they will try to get a bargain. Or they will viciously insult you.
After 25:years of this I want to hit the delete button. Some of these guys are right off the boat and they add new meaning to misogyny. Even though you are booking online very fast, they want to see it. Because they want to waste your time with haggling. .
But my daughter says I am a bigot.
Frankly A, I am amazed you were able to work with any of them. You earned your C-PTSD. As I have earned mine. ..
Today I went to the doctor and learned that I have a serious problem. I have to minimize stress. I am going to hit the delete button now because stress reduction is life and death. No choice.
Pinch — I’m very sorry to say your comment made me laugh. It figures they behave this way as prospective tennants. I applied as a tennant with Indian landlords and my god, they put me through the wringer. Seems they expect to be treated the way they treat others. The irony!
You know what it right for your mental health and your business. Don’t look back. Should you daughter wish to rent to them, she can buy her own buildings and do just that.
What you say really makes sense. I am an escort. I am very new to escorting and I feel the same way you do about indian clients. I am an Indian girl but I don’t have the same reasons for not wanting to have intercourse with Indians. My reasons are many.. Reason 1.Indian guys have a beard 2. They have a bad hygiene and 3. They are stingy. (Some will agree on the amount you tell them and some would argue about the rates.) In my life as an escort I have had 2 Indian clients and 1 of them was very very sensitive and he was an older man who was always looking to get me in his room (we live in the same house) and have his way with me for free by offering me things. I have kept my distance and soon I will decline every Indian, Sri Lankan, Bangladeshi etc client’s requests. I am not racist, but I just feel uncomfortable with these ethical clients. And the smoke smell you spoke of is also correct in my case. There was this Pakistani guy who had his way with me for free, I was so foolish. He didn’t give a single pound and not only that but he took £25 from me to here by cab. Very very horrible person! He told me he will give me clients and I was foolish to accept the request. As i have struggled through mental illness (and still am) I am not able to decide what is the best for me.
Janice — I’m so sorry you’re dealing with bad clients who leave you feeling terrible. It’s even worse they’re willing to treat an Indian woman this way (but not surprising). I don’t know if you can appeal more to other types of clients, if you can afford to tell clients no. The only thing you can do is not see clients you think will cause you problems, and that’s only if you can afford to turn down work. It’s not a good place to be in if you can’t.
A courageous post. I see a lot of virtue signalling around this issue from SW activists who seem to encourage workers to ignore their repeated bad experiences with Indian clients. Workers should not be shamed for making screening decisions that keep them safe.
Misha — Thank you. I’m all for telling women not to ignore their own experiences or instincts. Safe, sane, successful can’t happen if you’re repeatedly having bad experiences.
Plenty of others on Twitter have been showing everyone just how much better people they are than me. They’re not the ones who have actually asked to have Indian clients referred to them. Funny, that.
Long time lurker here! A sex worker acquaintance of mine had somewhat similar experience with Indian clients: they are very argumentative! They argue over rates, time, and types of sex acts even after everything had been seemingly settled in advance. In fact, on several occasions, she had to call the building security to remove problematic Indian clients!
Out of curiosity, by “Indian”, do you specifically mean a national of India, or any person from the South Asian region in general (e.g., Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans, et al)?
AP — I’ve encountered the argumentative type only a couple times, thank god. But it’s not like the non-argumentative type has been any better, as I’ve written.
Indian client means Indian client. I thought I was being specific but I guess not. Born in India or of direct Indian descent.
I’ve had many opportunities over several years to enjoy the pleasure of beautiful women, both in physical form and intellectually. Usually when it comes to twitter or blogs I stand on the sidelines and watch/listen. It helps me to better understand the providers I enjoy seeing so much. No standing on the sidelines after reading your blog. It is similar to others I have seen.
I have never been turned away by a provider that I have wanted to spend time with. But that is because I provide the info needed to get her comfortable enough to see me. AND I treat a woman with the respect she deserves and that allows me to come back to see her if she so desires. BUT if I was turned away for whatever reason that would be fine with me because there is no reason for a provider to accept an appointment with someone she does not want to see. For whatever reason.
It’s a silly analogy but if I don’t like a certain food because it makes me sick, then I shouldn’t have to eat it just because someone else says I should. This is much more important. Doing what you do is tough enough without sanctimonious jackasses telling you what you should and shouldn’t do.
Your post shows a lot of thought and a deeper understanding of yourself than I think you give yourself credit for. I know it is easy to say but ‘forget the jokers giving you a hard time for your decisions.’ They impact you and you only have to answer to yourself. And finally, in business if I don’t appreciate the way a certain individual or company acts, I get to dump them. Lost income is a whole lot easier to deal with than the lost feeling of safety and dread.
Good luck. Fall Freedom
Fall Freedom — Thank you for your support and comments. On top of what you said, I believe you’re also the type of guy who prefers his partner to want to be with him, not dreading every minute. I also imagine you would feel awful or somewhat cheated to find out your partner felt that way about you.
To me, the solution is the provider sees who she feels best with, and the client finds his match. I think this is a simple idea. It just happens to be so very, very offensive. Apparently.
My main source of income is in another stream. In this business, and in others, it’s always the same: they want more, and they want it for free (oh, ok. half price.)
With 2 glorious exceptions, as soon as I see an Indian name on the screen, that point of view is validated. I have many Indian friends in my circle, but after 20+ years, when it comes to business, I just roll my eyes.
ThePinch — Thank you. I have nothing against Indians I encounter in daily life here in the US (in SE Asia, I had to be on guard against pushing and shoving).
But in this business…it got exactly to the point I stated: I was dreading seeing them as I knew they would pass screening and therefore it meant I couldn’t honestly say no. Glad I decided to be an adult and make my own decisions.
I am very lucky, I have an Indian client of many years who I consider a friend. He is always cleaned shaved, immaculate hygiene and impeccable manners. His English is terrible but he is gentle as a lamb, literally. He has never tried to kiss me and really does not touch me. He mainly likes to lay on his back and be softly touched very slowly. He insists on wearing a condom, I could go on and on but honestly he is a great guy. He smells like a fresh bar of soap, always I noticed. I see him once in a blue moon but he has been nothing but meek and mild with me for the entire 7 yrs. I have known him. He works his ass off and he tells me about some of the heartless things his fellow Indians do to him at work that sound very caste like. I also come to think of it had another Indian client who was a pharmacist. He had a heart condition and was a sweetheart. I am not bashing you for not liking Indians, anyone who stinks like they just got off a boat from the Ganges river after not bathing for weeks is awful. Sometimes if you walk into the wrong Indian restaurant the smell hits you like a shit ton of bricks. So, apparently there are a total of two non offensive Indian clients out there! ha ha.
Chinese guys: In college, I lived across the dorm hallway from a Taiwanese man who was fresh off the boat. We became friends for a full year and got to know each other very well in a platonic relationship. He loved my mother, and he spent much of his spare time visiting her. I could never see myself dating him, I was not attracted to our differences. One night changed everything, but once we were intimate, his controlling Asian culture came out. A stormy year later, my mom died and I was pregnant. All hell broke loose, but his child support check was always on time. Eventually the years softened us and we became friends again. A few days ago, we sat together and watched our son graduate from college with honors. We spent the long weekend together as a happy family as we always do whenever we gather for a special occasion. Our now adult son travels the world and is a beautiful blend of our two worlds. I realize my story and experiences are unique, just wanted to share something positive. Yes, my child’s father knows I am a sex worker, he voiced his concerns during our quality time alone together that we take whenever we see each other. He asked me many direct questions but he never once condemned me, he just wanted to make sure I understood how to protect myself and understand the risks. I guess I just have an altruistic view of men the older I get. My own father was so deplorable sometimes I guess most guys are not even close so my standards are low, ha ha.
Sherry — Welcome back!
When an Indian man is exceptional, they truly are. However, it meant I had to kiss a LOT of Indian “frogs” to find that rare prince. The ROI became so not worth it to me.
Chinese culture is a bitch if you’re a woman. As clients, they tend to be meek and mild and clean. Living in SE Asia, daily life was a completely different story. I’ve often said, nothing like travel to make you hate certain people once you get to know them. I’m glad to finally know the backstory to your son, BTW! 🙂
As I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten a lot less nice about all sorts of men. I could rant for a VERY long time on old white men, I get triggered just by seeing a photo of John McCain because he reminds me of Pig. Clients who exhibit Pig-like tendencies (and I certainly attract those types for unknown reason), get very rude behavior from me. I’m just cursed because they seem to like it and stick around. Why???
Anyway, enough about me. Thank you for sharing!
I just want to say I read this whole blog about Indian clients and I loved it! Very well written and totally true. I no longer see Indian clients neither. I do not like their mentality or hygiene. I can afford to lose their money now, when I first started I met with everyone that requested an appointment and I was miserable and hated my job very much, now I hate it a little less because I only fuck who I want to fuck And I’m a bit attracted to. Thanks for posting this!
Kiki Lover — Thank you for your support.
Our bodies aren’t public property open to everyone to just do whatever they want. At some point, a decision has to be made between making money and mental/physical health. I’m glad you get it and I’m glad that you’re doing what’s best for you!
Before anyone casts stones at Amanda for her “racism”, look in the mirror at your own ethics. Telling a provider that she has to see anyone that the provider considers a risk to herself on the basis of a political point is nothing more than PC pimping. Amanda does not and should not put herself at risk of harm just because others have a political point they wish to make. And for what it’s worth, save the hypocrisy. There isn’t a provider out there that hasn’t turned some dude down because they didn’t want to see him for whatever reason. Amanda has already been harmed enough by bad clients. I’ve seen Amanda after she has seen Indian clients. I’ve seen her physically injured by them and emotionally injured by them. She doesn’t owe compromising her safety or sanity just so that some dude can have sex or some ethical justification made by a faux PC activist. Anyone who thinks she should be at risk of more harm is someone whose viewpoint doesn’t deserve the time it takes to read it. Stop PC pimping bullshit and get a life.
Jill — Thank you for your support, in many ways.
Something that I wrote and that many seem to have missed: Indian clients have left bruises on me. I’ve never had any other client leave bruises on me, no matter how badly the session went (including a plane crash that nearly killed me, but actually didn’t leave a single observable mark).
I don’t see Indian clients now and guess what? No more bruises from clients. I feel this is a really objective way of determining who I should and shouldn’t see, regardless of how many non-Indian feelings I offend.
(I don’t get in planes piloted by anyone but a commercial pilot in uniform doing their job on the clock. Knock no wood, no more plane crashes either.)
Jill, I do not see where anyone posted what you are mentioning.
Are you instigating my post was insensitive or disrespectful of her
Do you have a problem with my post, Jill?
Sherry — Jill is referring to the shitstorm on Twitter that happened after I mentioned I don’t see Indian clients anymore. There was some serious ugliness on there directed at me, and Jill really isn’t happy about it. Neither am I, but it’s over and hopefully everyone who hates me has now blocked me.
Sherry, I wasn’t referring to your comment in any way. I was referring to what I have seen Amanda suffer from Indian men. I don’t have a problem with your post nor I was I instigating anything with you. Your comment had no bearing at all on what I wrote.
Oh, thanks for clarifying. I was starting to wonder if I was misunderstood.
I appreciate the clarification, had no idea about the Twitter war.
Sherry — I mentioned it in the post, but didn’t dwell on it. You can click on the very first link in my post and see a portion of it. Then it went off the original thread into a huge attack on me by several people. It was ugly and I bowed out after about 48hrs of it because enough was enough. After that, they were talking amongst themselves and continued to do so for another couple days.
Funny thing is (or not funny), is that my original comment on Indian men wasn’t anything I considered to be controversial, as SO many sex workers hold the same views. That may or may not be right, but they’ve all earned their perspective through experience, like I have.
The shitfest on Twitter was ultimately a holier than thou pile on by people who claim to be the pillars of open mindedness and judge on 140 characters of text. Amanda determines the propriety of her safety and body. Not anyone else. Itâ€™s quite stunning to see a group of sex workers all advocating so strongly on behalf of various groups of clients. We all have different life experiences. Just because some providers have had good experiences with groups of men doesnâ€™t make it universal.
Regarding the clients that were suddenly so important when dumping on Amanda, do you seriously think they would advocate for your rights? Tell them no pussy and watch them disappear. Do you seriously think clients donâ€™t base the providers they see on appearance, ethnicity, body type, or for that matter, the color of her nail polish? Have you ever read these wonderful clientâ€™s forums and the cruel lengths they go in misogynistic depth to denigrate providers?
Jill — Yeah, there was a whole lot of Team John support going on, as well as bashing a fellow sex worker for displaying a preference based on years of personal experience.
If they think Indian clients don’t choose who they want to see based almost completely on physical appearance, they have another think coming. Of all clients, Indian clients seem the least likely to choose a provider based on personality traits because they really don’t care that much.
And I want to add that I’m not charging inexpensive rates right now. I’m charging more than the ones who bitched at me the most, and yet I still got a lot of bad experiences with Indian clients. So the only solution is cut out the client pool that gives me the most problems, because I’m not certain that the rest of my market could support a rate raise. (I can dream, but I do have to realistic about the rest of my business.)
“You can get on your high horse and go win the Triple Crown” 🙂 You know I grinned at that one â€¦.. not this year I’m afraid, but I was at Belmont on Saturday anyway â€¦..
Obviously I’ve never been in the position to have to make this choice, but from all the sex workers I’ve worked for and befriended, Indian men have seemed to be perennially unpopular clients.
Once again, it just emphasizes how far common courtesy and common decency can get you, yet how uncommon they are, especially behind closed doors â€¦. but where and doing what else could a man be so well rewarded for being kind and considerate?!
Your writing is as good to read as ever, even if the topic is unpleasant â€¦.
Lee — Apropos, I think.
And boy, some of them were flogging their horses so hard, I’m pretty sure they set record paces. Up until the point the poor horses died, and they kept on flogging. And being as preachy as possible while doing so.
For some reason, WP didn’t show the rest of your comment until now. Glitch, I guess.
Indian men have been unpopular since I started stripping. The majority of my, and others’, experiences have been consistently negative. I guess the only bad thing one can do about this is be public about one’s personal choices.
But indeed, it’s SO easy to be a good client and Indian men have so rarely grokked that. Or they don’t seem to care. It’s really the “don’t care” part that started bothering me up until I cut them out of my client pool.
I totally understand your quandary around Indian clients. I’ve been contemplating stopping seeing them for the last 9 months.
Isabel — I don’t know what to tell you to do, but if your instincts are telling you that you would be happier without seeing them as clients, give it a try. After all, even if you turn down a few and then decide you’d rather not toss out a group of clients, you’ll have the opportunity to see other ones.
Amazing post. It is a shame that the websites that allowed SW to rate clients have been removed by the FBI. I wrote how to screen clients here, hope this helps…
How to Verify a client is not an Undercover Pig
Christopher — What websites allowed a sex worker to rate clients? I’m curious.
Ugh…I’m so sorry you had to go through that. The extreme sanctimoniousness is what has driven me away from Twitter. I like raising awareness on social issues, even getting occasionally sharp-tongued with it, but damn has it gone overboard. I hadn’t been on Twitter in months then I went ahead and deleted my account a few weeks ago. I might come back another time in the future but right now I’m prepping for a long-distance move so, whatevs. Take care, Amanda! You too, Jill. â¤
Claudia — Me too. It was shocking the amount of viciousness that came out. It is possible to completely disagree with someone without beating them down for their own experiences. That people have done that to you…wow. You say nothing that isn’t well-considered.
I wondered where you went. I recently searched for you on Twitter. I hope your move is the beginning of good things for you! Feel free to catch me up some other way.
Thank you for the good wishes, and I’ll pass them along to Jill. Back atcha! 🙂
Ah thank you. I’ll email you soon.
From a biological point of view, a womb is among the biggest treasures in the world, that’s why everybody’s instinctively obsessed with controlling it. State, society, feminism, mom, dad, your best friend, everybody. It’s like seeing a big pile of gold: The second you see it, you know for sure, it belongs to you, and the gal with the shotgun sitting on top of it is a thief you need to get rid of. You showed them a glitter, the Klondike Gold Rush set in.
Decent people can tame this drive, at least to some extent. As for the rest, well, brainless, instinct-driven beasts are what you need the shotgun for.
No explanations. No excuses. They don’t deserve it. Just a heavy load of â€œfuck offâ€. Your body is your temple, you’re God Almighty in it, you don’t need to justify your commandments. Show them your borders. Only after they’ve learned their place and politely ask, you can explain. If you’re in the mood.
This is a polite suggestion, nothing more. The decision is yours alone.
commatose — Thanks, I guess? I’m not sure that your explanation fits other’s reactions to my decision. But I have long tried to live by my credo of “my pussy, my rules.” It makes my quality of life better.
You don’t need to justify your decisions to anyone. Let them see who they want and you see who you want. Anyone who can’t abide by this basic human right, is not worth your breath.
David — Normally I don’t feel the need to justify my decisions to anyone. But I also got tired to trying to answer everything on Twitter.
I haven’t looked in on your blog lately, but I’m glad I did! I hope everything is going well for you. Unfortunately it comes as no surprise to me that you got such a negitive response to a personal decision; people just love to pass judgment on others. Seems mostly to make themselves feel better ’bout themselves.
I love your gallows humor, and the way you present yourself… it takes a certain amount of humor to be oneself regardless if others understand.
As always, all my best to ya,
Viking — Hey!!
Things are going better than they were in some regards, no better in others. That’s life right now.
Yeah, people were like “Your body your choice, but I don’t like the choice you made.” It’s like I was killing sex workers’ cats or something.
Gallows humor alive and well, though sometimes it gets pretty bleak even for me. It’s pretty much my last refuge of laughter.
Dear Amanda and Jill,
I am not a overly religious person. However. I read one of those stories on Facebook that was about Jill. I usually don’t read them. The headline caught my eye. So I read it and decided to investigate into it further… As a very compassionate person. My heart broke for both of you the more I looked into the story.
Although totally different than both of your stories. My dad was physically abusive to my mother and I. Long story short. It breaks my heart to see women mistreated. No matter what type of abuse it is in the end….
I wanted to wish both of you the best of luck and wishes. That nothing but true human compassion comes your way….. May the sun shine bright for the two of you with bright days ahead. Keep fighting the good fight in what your doing….
Indian In India here. I ended up on your blog through one of Maggie McNiell’s essays. I don’t really have a horse in this race (I’m gay), but I would like to say that you’re right in attributing it as a cultural thing.
Beware, long winded essay coming on.
First off, haggling is something inherently Indian. We haggle over the smallest of things at the more humbler establishments but the moment it’s a ritzy mall or some place we can’t do that, we quietly cough it up. So much that smaller traders deliberately inflate prices by almost 30%. Yeah, it’s certainly a feedback loop.
Secondly, rough sex is a widespread kink among Indian men, both straight & gay. I can’t exactly claim to be innocent of it either (mild af BDSM, in consesual settings only).The male animal’s inherent instinct for aggression aside, I think it could be attributed to the heirarchial nature of our society. “I’m better than you for X reason so you have to do whatever I say” is the ubiquitous attitude adopted by someone ‘above’ you, whatever X reason may be (eg. caste, age, social prestige, etc). On top of that, our culture glorifies the taming of the Wild Woman/ Man. Eg. wild, bloodthirsty Kali becomes loving & obedient Parvati; crass ascetic Shiva becomes the attentive householder Shankar; temperamental Draupadi gets raped in front of her 5 husbands; the docile perfect wife Sita keeps her virtue even after being kidnapped, etc. Many guys who I know are in relationships always go for the more mercurial type of girl (coz that’s hot) yet want to marry someone completely docile. Rare is the guy who actually wants the same “modern, free-spirited, strong-minded” (empty words, just thin veils to hide his fetish) girl for marriage, regardless of what he claims to feel in PC company (smarter girls just bare their teeth after the fish has been caught and never before). These factors combined just make that power trip all the more satisfying to the ego, I guess. The few good ones you found were either exceptional personalities or somehow away from those cultural influences (never been to India, immigrated a couple generations ago, whatever).
Although in my experience, Indians outside India tend to cling to the older paternalistic traditions a lot harder, insulated as they are from the mainstream Indian thought that our behaviours are in dire need for reform. So they’re more likely to be misogynistic, conservative, elitist, and authoritarian, as compared to the average, educated, urban man in India. There’s so many women who get arranged marriages with NRIs and come storming back into the country over issues like domestic violence. There’s fewer unskilled women who marry matches outside the country ofc, but the ratio of women who leave a marriage for reasons like that is higher among NRIs than it is among comparable couples within the country. That’s partly if not entirely why India still refuses to sign those extradition/extraction treaties or whatever that favour custody of foreign-born children to the foreign spouse in case of divorce and label the fleeing (usually) mother a “child trafficker.”
I really don’t know you well enough to say, but you probably give off that “fiesty” vibe to those guys and that’s what attracts them to you. I saw a little of your Twitter and the attitude you give off in tweets could very well turn on a certain desperately single guy ik who says he likes strong, aggressive girls (I say to him, what exactly do you have that would make her be interested in you? Nothing lol He’s an ugly little shit with zero personality.)
And that’s exactly it. Because they don’t stand a chance of even getting close to a girl like you in other circumstances, when they do find you, it’s like striking gold. Here’s a girl just like he fantasizes about who HAS to fuck him coz he pays her. On top of that, this is a service occupation so it gets worse. Anyone will tell you the utter hellhole that is the service industry in India. People feel like just because they pay you, because a customer is ‘above’ the provider, they own you. And you’re just a ‘dirty whore’ anyway. All the more easy.
I say, good riddance. More power to you for giving them the boot ???
Out of sheer curiosity btw, who were the worst guys? The ones fresh off the boat, the tourists or the long-term immigrants?
Patel, isn’t it? XPYou don’t have to answer if you would rather not revisit it ofc, just curious.
I3 — WOW! Thank you for your comment. Obviously, I am ignorant of deeper Indian culture and its mythology. You’ve explained a hell of a lot. And your last paragraphs confirmed the feeling I got from a number of Indian clients.
In real life, I am much more mild-mannered than online, though I do call bullshit when I see it. I’m not feisty (usually), so much as drawing strong boundaries. Then again, plenty of men are threatened by that, Indian or not. American men certainly like to try and “tame” “wild” women, though in my experience, they go about that through psychological means rather than straight physical means. (Emotional and mental abuse often stems from this.)
The worst ones seemed to be the long-term immigrants. No, not a single one was named Patel!! 😉
Fresh off the boat guys were closer to the range of normal client interaction, just less bathed than Westerners. The few good exceptions were very culturally Indian, but also modern. They were all exceptionally personable and gentle. And no, I don’t think it was an Indian class thing as only one was Brahmin; it seems it was just their individual personalities. They seemed to do well in Western culture.
Happy to have been able to provide some insight into attracting dbags! 😉 I personally tend to be quite restless until I figure out the ‘why’ of something so I felt it was only in the spirit of good faith that I should try and help figure it out.
Ofc, yeah, drawing boundaries is necessary in your line of work and it’s not the same as being fiesty. But neither was Katniss from Hunger Games ‘fiesty’ to be specific. That guy I mentioned, desperately single (also a chain smoker, forgot to mention that), used Katniss Everdeen’s character as an example of the kind of fiesty girls he likes. She was just fiesty coz she was rebelling against an injustice. Definitely plenty normal otherwise. The books were more descriptive about it but he only watched the movies. I guess that’s where the differences in male & female perception play a role.
As expected. Sigh. I really don’t begrudge our diaspora for trying to hold on to their culture & identity, but they really should know better than to water the weeds along with the herbs.
Aww no Patels *brahminical sighs* XP Don’t conflate caste with class. Caste is social, class is economic. Social reform started from the upper- & middle-classed upper-caste Brahmins. Reform always starts from the privileged class and trickles down. Revolutions go the other way, from the lower to the higher class. There are still extremely backward, poor upper-caste people and also extremely forward, rich lower-caste people. The upper caste simply have more opportunity to elevate themselves to a higher class, but not necessarily the skill. In the end, money talks more than social heirarchy. People need to eat after all. We have a saying that even the gods themselves are secondary to food (“????? ??????, ?? ??????.”)
I bathe every day and I think you’ll still find me stinky XD It’s all the spices we eat. I remember one bisexual white lady who said that as much as she found Indian women just too cute to bear, she dreaded having sex with them because their orifices tasted weird and she could always smell spices on their breath and in their body odour. Same with the few Indian men she had ended up with but the misogyny usually turned her off first in a lot of cases. As an experiment, she convinced one girl to avoid spices for a few weeks and the tastes & the smells quickly went away. <3
I3 — Indeed, there are SO many men who think a woman just stating her boundaries is “feisty” and “upppity” and a “bitch.” Ugh. (I’ve read The Hunger Games and watched the movies.)
“…hold onto the weeds along with the herbs.” So very well put!! I think part of it may be that Indian men feel it’s okay to be sexist in the US. Or they feel that Asian men in general are seen as “lesser” and they try to overcompensate with their masculinity. Or they’re expressing anger over it. Or a huge combo of things. Like the recent thing with Aziz Ansari. Reading the experience the girl had was triggering because he was such a stereotypical bad Indian client. Or was he just being a young, oblivious, famous dude? It’s so hard to tell.
I love that saying!! Money does make the world go round, and makes life better in every way. No, I don’t confuse class with caste, it was just an interesting note that one of the nice guys was of the highest cast. (He was also a young-ish student.) As far as caste goes, I’m guessing most I’ve seen were of the middle castes, the merchant ones. I’m guessing. Money certainly doesn’t buy class, the US is filled with examples of this.
Not sure if it’s the spices. I love Indian food and how it smells. When I complain, it’s due to an obviously unwashed body (Indian men tend to be very bad at properly cleaning their foreskins too). Chinese men tend to be very clean but eat lots of garlic and they reek of garlic. (Not so much Chinese-Americans.) Cigarette smoking doesn’t help either. I used to smoke and I’m highly sensitive to it, maybe because I used to smoke? At any rate, Indian men are hardly the only men who could use a good soaping, regardless of their diet. Just that combined with all the other unpleasant factors they often brought to the experience…I noticed odor.
On the other hand, I’m now starting to not see white men over a certain age. My tolerance level for bullshit is at a lifetime record low right now. 🙂
I guess you could say that caste in India is like race in America: doesn’t matter much if you’re rich, but it can be a question of life & death if you’re poor.
I3 — Agreed 100%. Class/race/status lines mean so much, as shown by the caste system in India or the behavior of police towards minorities in the US.
So what do you propose the potential ‘indian’ client do if painted with the broad brush. All of your points are valid. It is your body, your choice. It is ironic how the seeker can have all the preference he desires but the provider cannot and HAS to service everyone. One issue is, India is sub-continent of 1.3 billion people, ranging from light skinned green eyed north Indians to indistinguishable from black South Indians to East asian looking Indians from the East. The equivalent would be to say you won’t see Europeans and you can see what a wide range that covers. I know exactly who your Indian clients are. One look at any attractive womans public IG would show you the comments. India is a hotbed of misogyny, rape culture being dominant, entrenched patriarchy. There is also the fact India is a third world dump, most Indians who emigrated abroad are still immigrants or first generation folks straddling western lifestyles with eastern values and mindsets. So again the question becomes, what would someone who is Indian do in the face of the restriction? Seek out someone else? You did say the return on investment is not worth the dread, mental anguish spent on whether they will be good or not. You never should have to justify yourself though. Imagine a client being told they had to see anyone avilable and couldn’t choose. Imagine how they’d feel if their provider was someome they did not want and were not attracted to.
Harold — You get it. I’m not going to pretend any of this is pretty, or simple, but it is my reality and I can only do what I can to control my reality, and minimize harm to myself.
As for the Indian men who do not get favorable responses, all they can do is try to see someone else. I get that rejection is not a nice thing. There’s no way around this issue either, especially since most ladies do not put notices on their sites of who they will and won’t see, likely taking it on a case-by-case basis. (I turn down every possible hobbyist that I can, though it’s not something I put on my site.)
I will never be all things to all people. It’s impossible and that weight is not worth carrying on my back. Nobody gives gold medals for it.
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